Goals: to understand how Othell Rogue class archetype works with Critical Damage and Skill Critical Damage, and to determine which is better. To check if Critical Damage Reduction affects blows. During the experiment an Othell Wind Rider 110 with different item/skill setups was hitting an Aeore Cardinal 110 with https://l2wiki.com/Chain_Blow_-_Othell_Wind_Rider . Aeore had no passive skills, while Othell had only https://l2wiki.com/Superior_Light_Armor_Mastery_-_Othell_Wind_Rider to increase his Skill Critical Rate. Random damage was disabled. The experiment first confirmed how the Othell blows work in general: depending on DEX, a blow can ‘crit’ (deal double - or more - damage). This is misleading, as a blow always says “Critical Hit” in the chat window, even when it does not crit. it is possible to reach 100% Crit Rate on Blows (with Skill Critical Rate stat); during the experiment a DEX of 120 already ensured 100% Rate, it is probable that the 100% Rate starts on much lower DEX, since nowadays top-gear daggers crit almost all the time with ~90 DEX when the blow does not crit, it’s damage is increased by “Critical Damage” only, the “Skill Critical Damage” stat is ignored completely when the blow crits, it’s damage is increased by both “Critical Damage” and “Skill Critical Damage”; if an item or buff gives both of these effects ( https://l2wiki.com/Prophecy_of_Might_-_Iss_Hierophant , https://l2wiki.com/Greater_Red_Cat%27s_Eye ), they are both applied that implies that if your Skill Crit Rate is high enough, the best Othell SAs on weapon are Death/Fire, since their bonuses have the biggest values without any passives, there is a bonus to damage for hitting from behind (I tested it with both a dagger weapon and a blunt weapon on Othell, and later on an Aeore with a blunt weapon), that applies to autoattacks, critical hits, and blows (I was unable to test with a regular physical skill), and the bonus for autoattacks is 20%, autoattack critical hits 10%, and blows 15-25% (it seems the last value is dependent on something else) After confirming the above points, multiple testcases with different buffs and gear were checked, you can see the results on the image below: (!)IMPORTANT: every testcase in the table was only noted down for ‘critical’ blows, since these are the ones that matter(!) Spoiler: Results Column headers and list of gear/buffs used: Spoiler: Headers explanation Weapon: Clean - https://l2wiki.com/Helios_Dual_Dagger Death/S.Death - https://l2wiki.com/Helios_Dual_Dagger with Death level 8 and Speed Death level 8 (10% Critical Damage and 5% Critical Damage) Fire/S.Fire - https://l2wiki.com/Helios_Dual_Dagger with Fire level 8 and Speed Fire level 8 (Skill Critical Damage 13% and Skill Critical Damage 7%) Death/Fire - https://l2wiki.com/Helios_Dual_Dagger with Death level 8 and Fire level 8 (Critical Damage 10% and Skill Critical Damage 13%) Front/Back - says if blow was performed from the front or from the back Rings: Baium - https://l2wiki.com/Baium's_Ring QA - https://l2wiki.com/Queen_Ant's_Ring Warrior's - https://l2wiki.com/Warrior's_Ring Fallen Angel's - +10 https://l2wiki.com/Fallen_Angel's_Ring details here Lindvior - https://l2wiki.com/Lindvior's_Earring PoM - https://l2wiki.com/Prophecy_of_Might_-_Iss_Hierophant AP Crit Dmg - Berserker Death Whisper level 3 (7% Critical Damage) AP Skill Crit Dmg - Berserker Craft Death level 3 (7% Skill Critical Damage) AP Rear Damage - Berserker Backfire level 2 (5% Damage from Behind) Critical Wound - https://l2wiki.com/Critical_Wound_-_Othell_Wind_Rider level 8 Maximum Critical - https://l2wiki.com/Maximum_Critical_-_Othell_Wind_Rider Critical Chances - https://l2wiki.com/Critical_Chances_-_Othell_Wind_Rider Effects on target (Aeore): Drum on target - https://l2wiki.com/Drum_Melody_-_Iss_Hierophant level 1 Knight AP on target - Guardian Death Shield level 2 Physical Shirt on target - +10 https://l2wiki.com/Physical_Reflect_Shirt If you want to copy over the results to apply your own filters and perform your own in-depth analysis, there is a spreadsheet below for that, which contains the data in the image table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1A3tZspYobcufynEGFZecvIDcDOX6IsAPXYpKUT4-tq4/edit#gid=0 Critical Damage Reduction As you can see from the table, the “Critical Damage Reduction” is applied for blows, but I haven’t been able to figure out how exactly it is applied. What the experiment data proves is that: https://l2wiki.com/Drum_Melody_-_Iss_Hierophant (-50% Critical Damage Received) on defender is around 18-25% less damage received, both for naked and fully stacked attacker Knight AP Guardian Death Shield level 2 (-20% Critical Damage Received) alone is around 3-5% less damage together they give 24-35% less damage so it’s worth to have them both https://l2wiki.com/Physical_Reflect_Shirt is around 12-20% less damage, but keep in mind that the shirt also grants 15% P.Def which distorted the result a bit Example on how the Critical Damage and Skill Critical Damage is applied: Let’s assume we have https://l2wiki.com/Earth_Wyrm_Heart_Ring, https://l2wiki.com/Warrior%27s_Ring, and https://l2wiki.com/Prophecy_of_Might_-_Iss_Hierophant . No passives or SA or buffs. Earth Wyrm gives 20% Critical Damage. Warrior’s Ring gives 15% Critical Damage and 15% Skill Critical Damage. PoM gives 25% Critical Damage and 25% Skill Critical Damage. Let’s say that a basic blow from the front that doesn’t crit deals 600 damage without any gear/buffs. Now, with the gear/buffs listed, the same blow, when it still doesn’t crit, has it’s damage calculated the following way: finalDamageNoCrit = 600 [base dmg] * 1.2 [Trasken 20% CritDmg] * 1.15 [Warrior’s Ring 15% CritDmg] * 1.25 [PoM 25% CritDmg] = 1035 When that blow crits, the extra Skill Critical Damage is applied the following way: finalDamageCrit = finalDamageNoCrit (1035) * 2 [base multiplier for a crit] * 1.15 [Warrior’s Ring 15% SkillCritDmg] * 1.25 [PoM 25% SkillCritDmg] = 2976
I'm not sure to understand You say this is the calculation of a standard non-critical hit, but you add the bonuses of critical damage on calculation....what I'm missing?
Ok this is a thing that I still miss. What "blows"stands for? Skill but not critic? Standard attack? And this calculation is just for dagger right?
The confusion is normal as NCSoft cant seem to make things easy to understand. Yes, this calculation is just for dagger since they are the only ones whose skills are affected by both critical damage and skill critical damage. Blows (often refered as stabs, example: Heart breaker) from othell rogues are skills that have "two" kinds of criticals. One is the normal damage made by the skill and the other one is the 2x damage skill critical that every class has. The game treats both as criticals for some korean reason i dont know about.
I read on ru crit damage reduction affects only p.crit damage mod (not the p.skill crit damage) so its lower. So does the reduction work Yuls skills crit damage?
So drum reduced 20,01% the damage in this test on the back (without anything), 13,16% reduction with warrior/fallen ring/lindvior and fire/s. fire (with and without drum) and if you add pom on top of warrior/fallen/lindvior and fire/s. fire, drum reduces now 17.95% dmg. Kinda weird that with more items, drum reduces less, but with more buffs, drum reduces more? I'd need to see pom vs no pom on drum vs no drum (without any jewels), but there isn't the damage for pom + drum on the table. Also, if it's a formula for reduction on crit damage, I'd understand if it didn't affect skill crit dmg, only crit dmg modifiers, but fallen ring and warrior ring give both, just like pom, so why would the behavior of the reduction be so different in both cases? Is it different if you get the bonus (p. crit dmg or p. skill crit dmg) on item or on the buff, for when the reduction will be calculated? Also physical shirt reduces 19,08% (clean), if it gives half of what drum gives (-10%), should be 9% dmg reduced from +15% p.def? I don't know if it's because when I tested I had full buffs/items/etc., so like 25k p.def, but I remember 15% p.def giving around 12-13% less dmg. Also if we consider that with more buffs (like pom), the reduction is increased, can we say that with +15% giant crit buff, warrior 1-2, crit prowness, etc., it'd change even more? And since without buffs the knight ap (-20%), reduced 3,34% damage, when drum reduces 20,01%, 3.34% x 2.5 (to reach 50%) is 8,35%, less than half of what drum reduces, so it means that they are applied on different stages?
15% p.def gives 15% less damage, the thing is that physical shirt doesn't give you 15% p.def overall. A normal char has like 6-8k static p.def which is added after the rest of the modifiers. For e.g. if you have 25k p.def from which 8k is static you would get 17*1,15 + 8 = 27,55k p.def which is ~10% more than 25k giving 10% less dmg.
I think you mixed up something, i checked your setups and damage reduction is 25,21 21 in those three cases (i checked frontal damage since AP for rear is applied but no equivalent in stabs with drums) 1. Clean frontal 1273 without drum 950 with drum 25% reduction. For the back test it seems that the crit. damage bonus from the back is not affected or affected differently (maybe by different multiplicatives) by the reduction thus the reduction is about 20%, looking by the numbers in both cases the reduction is the same - exactly 323 damage. This could be the reason that reduction varies alot once you start stacking different buffs and APs 2. Warrior/fallen ring/lindvior and fire/s. fire frontal (no Pom) 4071 without drum 3215 with drum 21% reduction 3. Warrior/fallen ring/lindvior and fire/s. fire frontal with Pom 6361 without drum 5024 with drum Exactly the same as in No. 2 - 21%, which is weird because if damage reduction affects only p.crit damage the decrease should be lower 77*((pAtk * lvlMod + power) * 0,666 * SS * SS_bonus * weapon_random * cdBonus * cdResist * cdPosition + cdStatic + damage_bonus) / (sDef+pDef) * weaponTrait * attBonus * PvPBonus * PvEBonus * powerBonus * skillCritBonus * damageResist This is the Golden formula for blows from ru forums, it seems its missing cdmult (2x) so not sure how crit is calculated.
