InGame/Hardware macro and Penalties.

I have a confession to make.

I was banned several times on different accounts.
One of them was banned for good.

It was never just for being afk using in-game macro.
I've used several third party tools and this for me deserves permanent ban when cought first time.
It's very tempting to write advanced scripts when you are a developer yourself.
Today I am able to play with these accounts (except for one).
Now I am not using anything illegal (not that I know of).

Innova is very tolerable when it comes to first/second time offenders which is not true for most of other games.
This is the problem because now people know that they are not permanently banned immediately so they do it again and again thinking they can get away with it.
Big mistake by Innova.
That's why we are having these topics.
To be banned permanently means that you've crossed the line not once but multiple times and Innova marked you as unredeemable.

All these people asking questions about if in-game macro is forbidden actually used more than that and this is just a hypocricy.
You might convince foolish people on forum that you are innocent but we (you, Innova and me) know you aren't.
You look very silly and you lost all credibility.

From technical standpoint, it's very simple to check if someone is using in-game macro or autohotkey macro (software or hardware) and obviously this is forbidden. Using these macros while being present at your PC will render you just less suspicious.

Innova does not ban automatically meaning that each case is checked individually (they have tools for it) and I don't think they have so much resources (human) to check people that are not even reported and if you are not afk chances for you to be reported at slim to none.

Dec 7, 2018

Lineage 2 community is getting older.
Game is old and there are less and less new people comming to it.

For most of us working to put bread on the table is part of growing up process.
This leave us with less time for playing the game we are addicted to and we still want to compete with other nolifers and donators.
NC knows this and that's why they introduced more advanced macros (although still very limited) to give people with very limited time some hope they can be competitive (this is just an illusion because of insane p2w).

In future I can only imagine that these macros will be less and less limited.
For instance first "improvement" could be increasing number of commands you can put in the single macro or practically removing this limitation altogether.
Another thing they could make would be option to run multiple macros simultaneously and so on and so on.

If you have two players who are spending equally in l2store and one uses afk macro while other doesn't and they have same playstyle (only difference is in macro usage) and they are playing live for lets say 2h every day (and one of them is also using 12 hours of afk macro every day) what do you think who will be more competitive in the long run?

 

@BISTABIL 3rd software its instantly perma ban.

 

@21st_
You are wrong and I stand behind my claims.
I don't see a reason for Innova making exceptions in my case.

To precise:
You are wrong for both "instantly" and "perma".

Dec 7, 2018

@21st_, If they are violators, their hour of justice will come.

And this response confirms that you are wrong about "instant" penalty claim.
You just failed to read/interpret official response you've got.
Man... :facepalm

Dec 7, 2018

People are never punished based on proofs but strong evidences, suspicion, motives, testimony.
Depending on your background, our definitions of "proof" might not be aligned.
For me, a proof, in it's strict sense, doesn't exist outside of philosophy and mathematics.

Dec 7, 2018

BIIIIIIIIIIP
Read again please.
Players are allowed to use device macros (keyboard, mouse).
3rd party software is broader category.

 

nope. i can point with finger in to few of violators who used "fast hands" to enter some instances, and they still alive or quit long time ago. unless they got something on their 95+ box chars.. which is just 2-3 days of kartia to reach same level.

 

Some are perma first time, other times they give chance and it's only temporary, I guess you got lucky using all these stuff you listed.

About questions of not being active and not using any macro (not even in-game), it's your choice. Some people play this game because they like the pve aspect (griding, making you char stronger for killing mobs faster, etc.), while others like this game for pvp, and ofc the human aspect is important, since joining a new server without any friends get boring really fast normally.

About what you wrote before, I guess you wanted to rewrite what you said, since you first said you can't do anything if they decide to delete your char without reason (which is false, since you can open ticket, and they always answer), implying even that this is something that happens in this server (which is also false, given the history that all cases are discussed on tickets and inside Innova's staff as well).

And after you completely missed the point, since you said "if you don't know where is the limit, just don't play with it", which is the whole point of this topic, to know the limit, which seems you didn't notice with all the pages and discussions so far, instead trying to explain why they try to be flexible (which is valid, most of your points have a good chance of being the real reason why they wanted to make things more friendly to synapse users, while at the same time putting limits to it).

And about winning at all costs, I don't know where you saw that. Using what's allowed (skills, items, good internet, computer, gaming mouse, etc.) is and was always used on competitive games to try to not fall behind and have your opponent take advantage over you (be it in more FPS in shooter games, be in strategies that are not "liked" by the public - like cheese on starcraft or early pushes on dota 2 that makes the game end in less than 20 min, or perma hide in l2, etc. - or even wtfast to have a faster connection to the server and faster response on using skills and moving (or will you tell me wtfast is also 3rd pt software and ppl should be banned for it?)). I remember my old clan on ncwest that leadership was pushing hard for all to use wtfast on sieges, since it was helping a lot with the delays, and also it was helping big time inside oly for the farmers.
This is different from "winning at all costs", since what this normally means is for you to forgo your morals and values and sacrifice everything in order to win, which I have no clue where you saw that written or even implied.
About bugs, the normal rotine people use in lineage 2 is when they find something unusual (being able to enter multiple times per day a 1-time daily instance, being able to use an item they shouldn't be, fake death with shop, etc.) is either to go ahead and use it, or to report to gms to know if it's allowed or not, since it'll be decision from Innova's staff if they want to punish people doing it or not (or even if that specific thing is a bug, or a game feature, since the only difference between the "bug" and "game feature" is what the company that owns the game says about it), and if they intend try to fix it or not.

About what you think is lame, some people think it's lame to go perma hide on some classes to win inside olympiad, other people think it's lame to put a single euro in a game (besides PA), others think it's lame to go pvp with only 2 dds (like when people used to make parties with 2 tanks, 2 healers and 1 ISS), others think it's lame to play more than 4 hours in this game, like all "non-lifers", "farmers" and "donors" are lame, others think it's lame to be competitive, and that the "right" way to play this game is casually, and if you don't play like this, you are lame.

People are free to think what they want, and if they want to judge other people based on what they believe, they are free to do that also. There are consequences to themselves, but what in life doesn't?

 

Propably noone cared enough to report you so you get checked. For people like Taka, if they cheat it's matter of time till they get caught. This is why there needs to be a clear line about this keyboard macros as well. You can not run arround with lv1-lv2 dragon weapons and depend on the mood of the GM checking you to see if you'll get banned or not. It just does not work.

 

you know very well what @Leckter meant. no need to compare it to "cheese" strats and gaming hardware

@BISTABIL you are right with most you say. But you forget that innova is a business company with a declining player base. Banning/keeping banned high spending players is not the best option for them

 

@BISTABIL go log and put a toon on bot and see if you get perma banned or not lol ;D ,if you talking about 6year ago could be that they didnt gave perma because when they started to detected *** they were giving 1day ban

 

Cmon guys, Its macro. not 3rd software. If u say its bad why ncsoft still keeping it ? active ppl still farms faster, but avatar cp guess have just so much dmg they can keep it on macro and check movies..The reason of that is, even with pa and runes the exp after 105+ is just slow, but they can be wiped by enemies And btw on this server i never saw after years, that GMS making something about bots if so, so why now, when everybody already leave? Macro is part of game and its not botting imo.

 

gl to farm with hands in core.. btw macro is same as bot, just with limited functions. and you can call it "legit" or whatever you want.. it's not changing fact - automated macros destroying game same as l2store and p2w items. and because of those greedy farmers peoples who really want to get adena to buy some gear are forced to rmt, in black market, or in legit way via l2store. there is no other options how to survive in so called "free2play" game.

 

Probably there are still tools with similar functionalities like years ago but I've learned the hard way that sooner or later you get caught and at that point impact of losing your account can be great.

Dec 7, 2018

@Hax
I agree on that point.
I am not sure how you got the impression I think otherwise.

 

This is not true.
1. Ingame macro is fully client-side and there is no packet sent to the server when you use it. And yeah, there should be, thanks Korea.
2. It is impossible to use Autohotkey macro because it inserts mouse/keyboard events into the message queue via WinAPI functions, and Frost blocks any attempts of that when your active window is Lineage2.
3. Hardware macros are impossible to distinguish from real life hardware clicks, since the keypresses are generated via a script on OBM, and they look EXACTLY the same when arriving to Windows. Unless you check the delay between clicks, which ofc can be randomized, making your check obsolete.

Summarizing: it is impossible to distinguish an ingame macro from a real person clicking without doing all the checks (teleporting around etc). Even when that becomes possible, it is impossible to distinguish a real person clicking from a hardware macro. Since it is now allowed to used hardware macros under certain conditions, people have a right to know exactly what these conditions mean. And people have a right to be worried when there is no certain way to distinguish how player presses his skills, and everything is based on GM's gut feeling and checking algorithms. Not to mention that these algorithms can be wrong. Back on Lilith my friend got banned because the algorithm said a GM should PM the suspect botting player, and if there is no response within a certain time interval, that's a basis for a ban. The algorithm did not forsee that GM could be in message refusal mode and it will be impossible to answer him back xD

 

First of all this game is broken at the design. Low lvl solo macro zones giving you good adena, but when you go somewhere where need full and active party. For example Etina, Helios, Camile, Tavern, Epic Tauti, Epic Octavis, Istina or hard locations Sea of Spores, Elven Village at the end you have barely adenas for your blessed spiritshots. It's ridicules.

At the moment, the game rewards players located on afk macro / bot. You need to change game mechanic to start rewarding active players to play at a high level in high difficulty zones.

Simple as that. For example i can give you @Artchem password to my character, and you will stream. Show to the players how they can make adena while playing game developed by you. I just want to see how many hours you spend, where you go, how much you pay for bssr and how much in total you will earn.

 

OnTopReplica. You can watch a movie and the game in the same time , still being behind the computer. You're playing with kb macros recorded with a combo made by your hands , how the **** can someone check that you're here or not especially if you're focused on the movie , while seeing your game running , and for example having all the logs in chat ?

People thinking this game will allow hardcore farm again , you're just wrong , like people said above, community that still loves this game doesn't have time anymore to play hardcore on a daily basis.

Innova just made a mistake in my opinion , they are banning for nothing just to show to people unable to farm smartly that they hear their voice a bit to keep them around. Stop being delusional thinking Innova is caring now and while they weren't caring 2 years ago.

 

The real mistake was to even tell you that hardware macro is allowed within certain limits, however since Artchem just came from Ru servers where this has been discussed but not sure to what extent, he just went with the flow.

Hardware macro should be allowed to use only as a complementary macro to players actions ingame, there problem solved.

People got banned for a reason, because hardware macro was/is illegal for many years, stop spreading ******** with your bot avatar. And there was never a problem until EN got banned botting and now somehow its unfair.

And funny how only EN is crying about these macros... even though they can perfectly bot with ingame macros.

So EN top PVE clan yet?

 

The haters cry is funny af.

 

Didn't know @TranpeGG was from evilnation.

 

wut

 

well dont blame mitsa, his heart stopped when avatar pt was banned

Hardware macros were fine for a long time without any consequences, just typical innova move to start banning now

 

hardware "macro" is same as software bot. so i didn't see point why you complaining so much about that.