1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. forum offer event offer event

[03.10.2018] It's time for a new world

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Yumi, Oct 3, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mYzor

    mYzor User

    Joined:
    21.06.12
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    72
    But you are aguing something that, since you are currently on an NCSoft approved server, you dont seem to understand.
    People that are unhappy with the Official Experience (sigh..) will not set foot on INNOVA nor NCWest.
    Lets not treat players that have left "us" as idiots. They all have valid reasons as to why they left. Most of those reasons never got addressed by the publishers (INNOVA/NCWest). And the ones that were "noted", were flat out ignored by NCSoft.
    The reason it (paying for influencers) works for those "other" servers is because there are are a lot of players looking for a different experience than what they got from the Official servers.
    While INNOVA/NCWest do as they're told by NCSoft (and the result is people leaving), those servers change stuff (blasphemy, says an NCLicker somewhere) to lure people in.
    Those servers need people that could spend money. Our servers need people that spend a lot of money.

    Advertisement would work if Lineage 2 was a good game, since it would bring fresh players. Now.. How many of Core's newly made accounts are fresh players? And how many are former Lineage 2 players from somewhere else? Lineage 2 playerbase is almost like a pond. it's stagnant and only increases when it gets some rain drops.
    Again, "jaded" players are not convinced with videos. Hell, depending the the content (pvp one shooting everybody or pve instancing all day) it might do the exact opposite and drive people away.
    Even i, sometimes i think about those crappy pvp servers and thing about what the hell am i doing here. And that, coming from me, its a gaming existential crisis, lol.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
  2. Notic

    Notic User

    Joined:
    20.03.17
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    68
    You kinda missing the point yourself and do not understand that no matter how bad the game can be some people might still find it fun to play and/or give it a try. Or even returning players. Me after a few months of playing I get bored or forget just to have fun and focus too much on exp/adena and burn out. These youtubers/twitch streamers do give you a nice reminder that you can just have some fun.
     
  3. Advocad

    Advocad User

    Joined:
    27.12.11
    Messages:
    309
    Likes Received:
    130
    Guys, there is nothing wrong with the game itself. NcWest has already altered their approach and the result is a fantastic: 21k+ people during prime on 4 servers. Unheard of in the current L2 world: f2p server with minimal/limited l2store content. It does work and might open NcSoft's eyes to a... compromise so to speak: http://l2.laby.fr/status/

    Now these 20k plus players surely will spend more than $100/year each. The idea here is, instead of reaching out into people's pockets and get a lot from a very few, better work with the players, offer them a game and content they enjoy and they will pay for l2store stuff slowly, as and when they can afford it. Having l2store "promotions" where you have the "once in a lifetime" opportunity to buy some **** for a few thousand euros, all within 2 weeks to a month, is a sure way to chase people off.

    @Innova: watch, listen and learn. Don't go "Russian style", go "American style". Americans know how to make money!
     
  4. mYzor

    mYzor User

    Joined:
    21.06.12
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    72
    Its true that for those only willing to try the game out or having some fun it might be worth spending money in advertisement. Or is it? Well, as long as INNOVA would get the money back with the store, at least.
    But then again, what are they gonna stream that will paint the game in a good light? (legitimate question as i've never watched an L2 Stream)
    Watching someone with full gear doing instances for hours on end with little to no drops?
    Watching someone with full gear farming SoS, showing how fun is it to exp at the higher levels?
    Watching a siege where the streamer either one shots everyone or s/he her/himself gets one shot left and right?
    Maybe watching Oly, balanced matches.. where.. wait! where the L2Store (the p2w) has a major contribution to the matches outcome?

    I dont deny that this game has lack of advertisement, just as i dont deny that the prices are "on the highside" but:
    Servers under NCSoft, from Korea, to Japan, to Russia, to EU, to USA, are "slowly" dying out for a reason. Lack of advertisement isnt the main one.
    Getting more people into a bad game doesnt suddenly make the game good. Just as luring people with the point/promiss of having fun, until they find a wall and cannot have fun anymore, isnt right. At least to me.
    This is where the situation is different on those "other" servers. They're run by people that can and do make adjustments in order to meet players expectations. Do Official ones ever do? (NCWest seems to have done it with their classic, how long will that last i wonder)
    I'll be honest. I cant remember the last time i felt hype about this game since it turned F2P. I remember being hype about kamael's, for example, only to be let down with their souls mechanic. (glad they fixed it, though)
     
  5. Notic

    Notic User

    Joined:
    20.03.17
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    68
    The game itself isn't bad, but its ruined by l2store alone. I don't know why you so hung up on the advertising, it was just one of point, where Innova can't make the right decision among all others.

    But since you are so narrow minded let me give you an example of old days classic for a casual player and let me know if you find any similarities to today gameplay:
    Me lvl 71 tank with A grade set and damascus blade and that's after about a year and a half of playing (max lvl was 76 at that time afaik), nothing hardcore but a 2-4 hours/day playing. Guess what, I was one shot material for people in over enchanted weapons with S grade sets and epic jewels, which I would never get unless I spent thousands of hours farming and farming. I had no chance in oly, 1 on 1 nowhere. How's that different?

    Again Im not saying game is fine, its beyond broken since game introduces damage items every 3-6 months with 15-25% damage increase which is ******ed since all damage is multiplicative. The difference was, there were alot of people my level, my level of gear I could play with. That's where higher number of people come in handy. Of course, the main problem pushing people away is the ability to farm items.

    But if you have cp and just enjoy chilling and doing your stuff, you could easily do it especially since prices has dropped so drastically. This one youtuber shows his monthly drops from raidbosses when its done right, alot of time 150-200 mil+ of drops.

    People just stupid and start the game but center their own gameplay around top players that either spend thousands of EUR or thousands of hours.

    It's like installing cs:go for the first time and quitting in a week because you are not drafted into ESL or IEM
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2018
  6. NMateo

    NMateo User

    Joined:
    11.09.15
    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    35
    Looks like it wasnt time for a new world
     
    Groar and LuckyLuciano like this.
  7. Notic

    Notic User

    Joined:
    20.03.17
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    68
    I'd be happy if Innova went russian style on EU servers, that would mean 1/2 prices...

    I am still skeptic about those servers, the numbers are inflated because they are completely free so anyone can try it out + everyone can run 3 accounts for free if im correct. 6-12 months will polish it and form a core of players.
     
  8. mYzor

    mYzor User

    Joined:
    21.06.12
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    72
    "The game itself isnt bad, but its ruined by the l2store alone" > So, NCSoft changed the game in order to feed the l2store (that most people aknowledge as bad), but the game itself is fine?

    The game isnt at a point where you are (usually) beaten by people that put more effort. Even if it was, it could be meaningless because of one simple reason: There is a huge amount of players in the MMORPG community that HATE being outclassed by others just because they have spent more time/money in the game. People are more welcoming to games where skill is the biggest factor. If you went around researching some of the new MMORPG's and the players reaction to their mechanics, you'd know this.

    Not to burst your bubble but it was always like that. That is why black market/rmt was so profitable. (And you just started your post saying the game wasnt bad, but then you're "not saying the game is fine")
    And as for the higher amount of people. Here's the thing. Unless you ignore the quests and their rewards, you'll always reach the 99/100's without gear to proceed.

    That is 1000% true, but new players will not have the knowledge to pull that off, they will likely not have the gear to farm bosses, even if they do have the gear they wont beat the raid farmers, even if they do beat the bosses they might lose the RNG lottery, etc.
    Without talking about patience (lost art) as this game generates a boat load of frustration. (if RNG that screwed you, other players that VISA'd you, your trusty CP member that left you with nothing, etc.)
    If you believe new players will put up with this for long..
    Just as an example. When andrius made that thread, by doing all his stuff in the most effective manner, he got 2 full weapons from freya/zaken.
    I wouldnt even know how many zaken/freya's ive done. I've seen many weapons drops. Got 0.

    This game atm its like installing cs:go for the first time and getting some random maches where you are put into ESL or IEM matches. You get yelled and/or laughed at for being bad even though it was the game that put you there.

    Trying not to be narrow minded i just gave you some reasons why advertisement, while good, isnt the holy grail that is gonna save the game using "new player" as an example.
    The ones that are not new are not so easely swayed by adds, videos and such. Not to mention the amount of people playing in servers with much "realistic" rates. (as in, they do not make you chose between your life and your grind)

    Just to finish my point and im out for good.
    If players just want to have fun they could be playing FFIV, as it is not only better but being a subscription based game, its cheaper. (l2 is supposed to be competitive, that is the whole deal with the store)
    If NCSoft wanted new players, they would make changes to make those new player's ingame life less frustrating. But hey, we got announcements when people make their purple gear, thats good.
     
  9. Notic

    Notic User

    Joined:
    20.03.17
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    68
    I nowhere said the game is fine, not being bad does not make it good. Take l2 store items away and bare bones of the game is quite decent.

    That's exactly where the game is, its 15 years old...If there was no l2 store, there are still alot of people who have played for many years here and accumulated top gear without l2store and still would be 1 shooting you. Also you do realize that whatever the game you take, time means progression and progression means higher skill, whether it is level, gear or knowledge of the game mechanics? And you tell me there are mmo's out there where gear and progression has no meaning at all in pvp?

    I dont even know what you are trying to say here...

    Learn to read. I said with cp, which means with circle of friends, you know, how every mmo should be played. Or if you can box 7 chars thats up to you. Now imagine if all those times you did freya/zaken and dropped weapons and all the money went to you and your cp? Over the time it ramps up. And to do octavis/tauti/istina/balok you don't need much gear.


    Again, never said advertising is holy grail, I just gave an example of Innova's poor decision making at even little things (ad) that could help (not save) this game stay afloat a little longer.

    And talking about "realistic" rates, tell that to thousands of people playing classic lol
     
  10. 21Sav

    21Sav User

    Joined:
    02.04.18
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    51
    Wait a minute, this topic is 3 random pages and 10 pages of two fools arguing about nothing?? There are tons of ways to communicate you useless opinions - pms, Skype, discord, what's app, viber, etc.
    There are no awards for most posts.
     
  11. mYzor

    mYzor User

    Joined:
    21.06.12
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    72
    I answered using a new player perspective. You called me narrow minded but its you that can not step out of your position as L2 player.
    If you take the L2Store away, new players will NOT find the game decent. They will facebash a wall. They will reach a level where the only thing available to them are the Baylor/Baloks of everyday grind.
    You are ignoring the fact that there are a LOT of players (regardless of new or old) that do not like being outclassed by time nor money. New players will get hit by both, not many of them will have the patience (again, lost art) to push through.
    New players with friends will have to get lucky to get them to stick around. And if they dont have them already, they will have to make them ingame. (do i have to remind you that among us, nice gamers, there are the lowest scumbags around aswell?) Its so easy to get screwed when you're a new player in this game its not even funny, and depending on how screwed you get, its like having to start from scratch. Fun times.
    New players, by doing those "easy" instances, will not get gear to compete in the goddamn point of this game, wich is PvP. Not unless they trade their w/h ealth for it.

    Let me put this as bluntly as possible.
    The servers are dying? Yes.
    More advertisement and lower prices would absolutely make the game more bearable. But it doesnt make it any less than a bad game. And it doesnt make it any less of P2W. It will not stop people from leaving short after. This is that simple.

    Imagine a new player deciding he likes Duelist's. Tell him how fun will the game be for him if he doesnt get stacked to the teeth..

    And ohh.. thousands playing Classic. You mean, NCWest's right? I wonder how those numbers will look in 6 months to 1 year. Maybe it will be as big as our Classic, they will probably need a couple more servers to reach that number. Maybe im wrong :D
     
  12. Notic

    Notic User

    Joined:
    20.03.17
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    68
    Not a single game can please every player. If you prefer games with safe space where you can pick flowers in piece and do not need to do anything to fight top players then let it be. Fine with me, but l2 is defined by its harsh grindy mechanics always has always been. Is it dying? Yes, but mostly because the attention span of todays young ones is 3 seconds who cant bear an hour of a grind and self entitlement where you are pushed to believe from little age you can have everything and anything at a snap of your fingers. For me, I do not care for the players you talk about, they can go play their game and I play mine. But you are missing the main point again since you are talking about 1 type of players.

    It is not the friendliest game for newcomers, but playing a game where everything is handed to you is not for me nor for many other people.

    Tell me something. How does p2w ruined the game for you personally?
    Oct 31, 2018
    1st you are too braindead to not even know what the forum means and are for
    2nd you're bad at math
    3rd you're the only fool trying to get some attention
     
  13. mYzor

    mYzor User

    Joined:
    21.06.12
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    72
    Jesus.. Dude, for the love of all that is important.. none of those posts are about my PoV of the game. Its trying to emulate a NEW PLAYER's perspective.
    Today's gamers are what i would classify as whinny little babies. They want it all on the plate ready to be shoved down their throats. These gamers you wont get here no matter what.
    Veterans might return but find the game worse that what it was when they left. (this is a fact, as the game gets progressively worse update by update). They may stick around some time and then they leave.

    Do i realy have to answer that? The reason is the same for me as for everyone not happy with the P2W.
    The more and more L2Store content is being pushed, the more and more ingame content is made irrelevant. That's it.
    Take the nerfs to economy that doesnt affect the top dogs, take the bot counter measures that doesnt affect the top dogs, take the little game content being intruduced that more and more are just for the top dogs, etc.
    I dont know of any good game that creates content to push "top" players further away from the rest of its playerbase. The fact that this, being an MMORPG, does it with an ingame store AND ingame activities that are impossible with the average joe, dictates the current state of the game. (and being an MMORPG, those "top" players share the same space as the average joe aswell)

    PS: INNOVA did made ads for the new server. They are a bit .. plain.. erm.. they are horrible, but you can find them as adds on youtube :D
     
  14. 21Sav

    21Sav User

    Joined:
    02.04.18
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    51
    What? I didnt use math, what you and the other dude do is spam and offtopic. Both against the rules, but Innova doesn't care. I need no attention from some random forum warriors, ty and hf.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.