InGame/Hardware macro and Penalties.

And why would it be unfair, since any mouse above 20 dollars supports macros, and using a macro like that usually blocks legit clicks for the duration?

For keyboard macros your L2 window needs to be active (Frost blocks any inputs to non-active windows). This can be avoided in 3 ways i know of:
1. Using a 2nd PC to watch the movie or whatever you want to do
2. Launching a movie, and switching focus back to L2, while you watch an unfocused movie
3. Using a program which allows you to run two separate systems on both monitors, with only one PC, as long as you have two keyboards and two mice. This way one of your monitors is a separate system with it's own mouse and keyboard for running L2, and the other monitor is for browser/movies

 

Hello, everybody! Thank you for your questions!

@DefNotMits, there are some methods to identify it.

@DefNotMits, we cannot exclude, for example, the human factor, but there is a very small chance of that.

@DefNotMits, @Jintxa, The sanctions are applied according to the document "Lineage 2 Violations and Penalties" - https://eu-new.4game.com/legal/lineage2/19

@randomflavor, write a ticket to support: https://eu.4gamesupport.com/ But please, don't abuse this power. c;

@21st_, If they are violators, their hour of justice will come.

@Yslock, @Rnika, I can't divulge methods of checks. It’s such samurai’s secret knowledge, which is passed on from one samurai to another.

 

You cannot prove in anyways if someone is physically at computer or not, unless Frost tracks the system actions, which would make Frost a logger lol

 

Given the amount of money spent by players on your game, the least you can do is to justify how you can be certain that they commited an infraction.
We're talking thousands of euros here, it deserves better than "samurai secret".
Your rule is vague, what if someone falls asleep at computer watching his macro playing ? I really don't see how you can enforce such a rule.

 

It's still not clear for me if it's allowed to put synapse on feoh and go watch a movie on 2nd monitor (for those who have 2 monitors). You are still on pc, but focus mostly on watching the movie/series.
Or do you need to be active in game 100% of the time, and 30 seconds that you don't check in game is enough to get you banned from being "afk in game", since afk in computer is really hard to check, unless you have access to webcam (which I don't even have it plugged in)?

I'm asking this because right now me and many others are a bit paranoid with this, checking each 10 seconds or even less to garantee that nothing is going on, and that you can say 100% that you are in PC while the macro is running to not risk getting banned, since I'm guessing the idea of making rule that you can't go afk is that you need to keep watching your character hitting mobs all the time, for the duration of your exp (unless you need to go afk, then you put in-game macro), or am I wrong?

 

Good luck trying to make sense with those people guys... In the end they will just nerf to the ground the Adena/drops in all AOE macro Feoh areas so you only get EXP like in NCWest and call it a day.

 

honestly when my pt got banned for keyboard marco begin afk ,i was acutally near the pc while gmcat was teleporting musa dropping his hp in front of my face while i though what can happen we are all in marco and i left and went to eat launch after 3min taka write on skype we all got dc and we are grey,anyway im not gonna complain too much about a 7day ban we got but i was acutally watching the screen and i was fixing pet from musa cuz when gm teleport your the pet get messed up and i write even in white chat wtf with musa we got banned anyway.

 

frost block teamviwer too, cant talk in game with team viwer

 

peoples always can find excuses for being "afk"

 

On the other hand, you can put yourself in the business perspective : they can't tell how they check, or the check becomes obsolete. Though it's not rocket science what they do... But they can't write.
Also, paying or not doesn't matter, the pixels are their full property. They could delete your char without reason, you can only say thanks. Obviously and hopefully, they don't... but still...
Golden rule is quite simple to be honest : if you don't know where is the limit, just don't play with it. Don't use any macro device, here is your answer.

There is an angry dog trapped in a cage, and there is a sign "Beware of dog". " If I got bitten, how can you prove if the dog attacked me or I did attack him ?!?!"
Answer : don't get close to the facking dog, you got warned.

 

Your view is a bit superficial, since it disregards some aspects, since we are not asking specifically how the check is, but what is the concept of "afk from computer", since it is possible to have multiple meanings (not looking at the game window all the time, or being in the computer watching youtube on 2nd monitor, or doing actions manually outside the synapse macro, etc.)

The other point is that if people think Innova delete chars (even more from people who spent thousands of euros) without any reason, there are 2 consequences: 1. people would pbb stop spending if they don't trust that the company will be fair; 2. it could be understood as somehow abusive to the costumer. That's why on ticket you always get an answer, the reason for the ban, it's never "without a reason". And that's also why the reason is discussed between Innova's staff and the user to understand better and in some cases to recheck, which sometimes causes the penalty to decrease, or in other cases it causes the penalty to increase, depending on the analysis from Innova's staff.

And the final point is that this is a competitive game, where players use what is allowed to try to win or do better pvp/pve than their opposition. An exemple would be a farm zone that gave a lot of adena/exp and only 1 clan could enter, it'd be unfair. If something is allowed and it helps in pve/pvp, and you decide to not use it, and your competition decides to use it and gain advantage over you because of it, competitive players would think how can I use this resource within what's allowed so I don't fall behind, and never "don't get close to it", since it's allowed, even if only in certain situations (not being afk).

 

Well then there's what's written in EULA and what can actually be done. We're still in europe and abusive terms of use have been taken down before. I'm not a lawyer so maybe i'm full of ****, but i doubt you can deny access to what your customer has bought without having a reason to back it up. You don't own the pixels maybe, but you paid for the "service", and if they deny you the right to use that service they better have a reason.

It's fairly simple, when you make a rule it has to be clear, here it's all shady so it's ****** up.

 

Exactly. Same as "we have no obligation to show proof".

 

if they could just delete anyone char just for fun (and if they would do it, even loljava500000 servers would better.), meanwhile we can leave this dead server, so after they can close it, and find a job, where they should actually work not like here. you know it right?
they need us at least that much as we need them, for those ofc who playing here. without our money they cant go to the bahamas from l2store EVENTS.
so this example was not the best to be honest.



and all of u got the best answer from the best new cm... with this samurai ninja bs, with no sense at all, how they can be sure you are on the pc or not. so ye, gj innova, again.

 

Superficial, maybe, or maybe not, I just gave the conclusion and an image that people could understand. But if you want the full reasoning I could as well give it. Then let's go for a good talk !
What people tend to forget is the origin of all this. It "starts" with some kind of "the use of any 3rd party software is illegal", if I may remind you. Plain and simple. As you know (I won't even let me say that you MAY know...), they simply can't have any control on the device we have on the market nowadays. You're using Synapse ? They can't prove it. And some people used it.
So they went (after quite some long time before stating if you remember) the TOLERANCE way and brought this idea that you have to be behind your screen (this comes together with your second point, indeed, they do listen and avoid being abusive. Looks like you missed the words "COULD delete [...] OBVIOUSLY and HOPEFULLY they don't..." and thus, my point). I don't exactly remember if it was before, same time or after, they even said at some point, that you could use those devices, as long as the actions were not superior to what a "normal" (define normal... lol) player can do. Here again, trying to bring some "flexibility", not because they want, but because they have no other choice, still not being able to prove any abuser. And some people use it². And more people used it. And some people abused it.

Now. They are taking measures and bringing some bans, nothing "serious" (from what I see, could be wrong), and remind the rules. To me the message is clear, if I put myself in their shoes. "We still can't prove the use, but we will watch you, and if we decide you are abusing those limits we have, we will strike". Again, back to the dog analogy :
"I do RECOMMEND you to be present at your pc all the time despite the type of macros you use FOR YOUR CHARACTER SAFETY"
= "Sadly we can't prove, but don't be mistaken, we will watch and strike if required"

About your final point, this makes me smile... really. No offense, let me explain why. Competition means gaining each bit of advantage you can. Yes, correct. But as everything and everywhere, there are limits to that.
"Winning at all costs" means you can use every bug exploit you can find ? Nope, and that's not an opinion.
Does that mean you can abuse every single people you meet ? Nope, but this is an opinion.
But here it's on a total different level, as we're not even talking about game or game atmosphere. We are talking about 3rd party software, ffs...
You can call it competition spirit, I call that being lame. Here also, that's an opinion, don't need to debate, you take it or you don't, I don't care.
I'm a competitive player. I don't use software or exploits because I find it lame. Here is my definition of competitive : I don't do anything special, I do the exact same thing as everyone can do and know how to. I will just do it better. I will do it faster, and I will do it smarter. At least I will try. And I will crush you with your own tools, or I won't. But I won't use any shady undergroud secret forbidden technique. Again, my vision.

As a conclusion, you found my words "superficial" while to me it's quite the opposite. You are superficial in your thinking here, because you don't understand the meaning of those rules, why they bring them, and why they have to make concessions or warnings. You (When I say you, I don't necessarily mean you as Taka here) only see your own advantage and comfort that you can get or lose. I never used Synapse or any clicker (I'm fully Razer equipped), and I find those rules clear and fine. Opinions...

@Padjil :
"deny access to what your customer has bought without having a reason to back it up."
I'm not more lawyer than you are, but this has been discussed already in the past, and it is (Well, I would say "was", as it could have changed meanwhile : "Have you met EULA ?" ) quite clear : You're not a customer, you're not buying anything else than access and gambling, you don't have any property, you don't own anything else than the data you send them with your email and bank details. If they wanted to deny, they actually could. Doesn't mean you can't attack and get some judgment in your favour (or whatever else could be the law procedure), but still, at this point and time, if they wanted, they could. They would be in their good rights, and would be up to you to build claims.

 

Why are you people so desperate to use these macros afk?

All you macro bots just hung up on words of the guy with limited english.

Common sense anybody? It should be clear to anyone with at least 2 brain cells that you cannot macro afk from the game, doesn't matter if you watch movie on same computer or taking a **** in the toilet. If you watch movie you still run a risk of getting banned if you miss the moment gm comes to check you.

Key macros has been illegal for some years now as stated by Fragola 2 years ago, but you still keep crawling out of your hole to try to persuade everybody otherwise?

 

To be honest I don't really care, I play a healer and noone in my cp uses this. I just consider this to be another of their ********, I'd much rather have it simply allowed or forbidden, because then it wouldn't leave it to the appreciation of gms whether or not someone should be banned, based on something they can't be certain.

 

I would rather have a clear limit also. But yet again :
- they allow it : they lose control "it's not adenaline it's my mouse macro !"
- they forbid it : "I'm not using, you can't detect and prove it"

That's a lose/lose situation, and their stance is pretty soft and not so bad. The problem is that it requires what Luciano told quite well : common sense. But well... common sense isn't so common

It's easy to blame, way harder to bring working solutions.

 

What does not enter my mind is because you want to play a game without playing the game. If all the pt is in macro at most there will be 1 active and 6 afk. that should be baneable. It is a total absurdity. The excuse that you are in the pc would only be valid for one of the 7. the others are completely afk.

 

That would make perfect sense IF they (INNOVA) didn't sell you the ability to have extra boxes logged on simultaneously. (this is the why for "be at the PC" and not "at/watching you character")
If you couldnt manage/use your boxes like that, then PA would suddenly lose value. Not good for INNOVA.