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Class performance

Discussion in 'Players asking players' started by Pantsu123, Mar 3, 2020.

  1. Pantsu123

    Pantsu123 User

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    Hello,

    Have hard time to decide which class to play. Returned to game after few years break, mostly played archers, daggers and healers a little up to H5 chronicle. Cant see anything except kamaels and summoners on low lvl farm spots so i cant event see what is popular among those classess.

    So, what would You suggest, and why?
     
  2. andrepnd

    andrepnd User

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    Kamaels are the best class for farming adena, that's why you see a lot of them.
     
  3. xHaseo

    xHaseo Read оnly

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    Ok, sit down, take a drink and get ready to read a wall of text. Here's a list of "Modified" classes and which are pros and cons of -almost- all of them. I'll skip the pve part cause all classes are good for PVE, setup may change depending of the class but in the end, faster or slower, the XP is not a problem if you know how to handle it. So this will be a "pvp/generic" list of pros and cons. Also, keep in mind, that if you throw 10.000 euros into the game in P2W items, all classes are good.

    Tanks : Useless. Warriors now learn skills that ignore p.def, making tanks mostly useless even during their UDs (titans hitting 2k through vengeance). They learn "chains" that pull targets, quite usefull for PVP or mass PVP. As debuffs, meh. Paladin and Eva's are the best, Dark elf has the usual list of debuffs/cubics (that are bugged and land even on targets that are in town, after they bsoed, or on daggers with hide), Dark avengers are the worse cause pet is 1shot material and Touch of Death and Insane Crusher as useless. They were good due to buff cancel but here you can insta-rebuff and, anyway, the effect NEVER lands. Good for PVE, for PVP they are "Meh". They got few extra skills compared to old patches.

    Healers : Damage dealers. No, really. Good luck finding an healer that heal. Most of them spams sleep/root which lands with a 100% rate, or 99%, even if you wear a NM set. Also, since they have 2 nukes, most of the healers are only DPSing and ignoring pt members during most of the activities. Bishops are usually full CON, making them weaker dmg wise and cast wise, but in a 1v1 scenario they are the worse. They got a debuff that burns ur mana 200% faster which allow them to win almost any 1v1 if the opponent has low dmg output. SEs are insane due to Stigma that decrease by a lot enemy m.def and resistance to melee weapons. Elven elders are probably the "weaker" but none the less they still hit a lot due to the high crt rate.

    Archers : Useless. I mean, if you're a guy like chappieba on blue server that throw 20-50 euro per day to reach lv 87 then maybe you get usefull. Otherwise the only hope for an archer to make some dmg is to fight vs under levelled or under geared players. Tricksters are good for PVE farm and with a good amount of money they probably are the strongest archers due to their Dark Transformation lv 2, 100% fear and Twin shot. They were OP before DK update but since they lost range and critical rate on skills they are now really weak.

    Daggers : AHAHAH. No, seriously, let's just skip it. The most underpowered class in essence. Trick and Switch have been removed (effect removed, not even working in pve now), Mirage changed effect, blow land rate that is low even if you increase it by 170%, good luck landing a bluff and also Shadow step is no longer stunning or cancelling target. It slows. And slow land rate is...20%? No really. It never lands. Also, half kills are removed and, for some reason, critical skill land rate is inferior to other classes. Damage wise meh. You need to spend a lot of money into P2W items, otherwise you'll have hard time fighting against anything. For some reason, since d1 of essence project in Korea, daggers were heavly nerfed. And it's a fact, not much to say, they literally lost all the pros of being daggers and now got only the cons. GH has higher crt dmg compared to others, ADV is basically useless and WR is quite op after lv 78 with dodge skill that increased p./m. skill dodge rate by 70%. But WR dmg is low. Trickster's evasion gives +35 p./m. evasion, +30% p./m. skill evasion and speed +40 making their evasion way way way better than any dagger ultimate evasion or 79 core skill. Might be decent with a good amount of money spent but, otherwise, not worth it.

    Mages : As usual, pretty nice. Spellhowler for some reason is close to useless but the other 3 are not so bad. Sorcers and necros are the best due to p2w items making sorc hitting hard as hell on criticals, while they still have a good amount of m.atk, crt rate and cast spd. Necros are good for transfert pain + 200 debuffs they can cast on you. You will have problems with mana due to the new auto-hunting feature that literally spams skill too fast but with some tricks/macros you should be able to solve the problem. I don't know if soulhounds counts as mages but they are OP as hell as well. Level 2 transformation and skills make them insanely op. Also, they can steal buffs from other classes for pvp or for olympiads, making them totally broken in a 1v1 scenario.

    Summoners : Broken OP. No, really. Dark elfs are probably the weakest due to summon being mostly a tank, but other 2 are insane. I don't know why KR devs had to make them so op that main cat for Warlocks got a skill with 10.000 power while Elemental masters has a pony with 200+ power on a nuke. Aoe. Which hits you for 3-4k on crit even if you have top items. But yeah, Elemental masters in primis are broken. They got a nuke that level up, making their dmg close to the one of a normal mage BUT they even got transfert pain and a summon that, not only gets master's stats, but also get extra-boosted cause you can buff'em with 2 empowers, 2 hastes, 2 shields, 2 mights or 2 magical barriers. And 2 Prophecies.

    Warriors : in general they are good cause all their skill bypass p.def now. Cause "duh". Duelists got a cage that makes no sense, trapping the target for 14 secs (on lv 84) and decreasing target received dmg by 20%. Sadly, while the enemy is in the cage, he can't do anything but use pots. So basically, with duelist output dmg, being caged means certain death. Dwarfs are now just DPS classes and has no other use, mostly, and they can be really strong with lots of money on them. Warlord is weak as heck but still good due to those ignoring p.def skill. Titan and Tyrants are OP with limits on and their 100% knock down skill is a pain. A tyrant with limits on can kill you a target in no 3 secs with auto-attacks if knock down lands. And it does. Always. So yeah...ignore p.def for the win, i guess.

    Blade dancer & Sword singer : For some reason they are so loved in KR that they are getting more and more OP with every patch. And i mean, literally. They are reworking them now in KR and they gets insane bonuses.
    Dances and songs are, for now, personal only. So you can't buff ur party. With a good gear they are insane in a 1v1 scenario/olympiads due to their d/s buffs. Sword singer is even stronger than Blade dancer. They got 20% reflect dmg, 30% chance of reflecting a skill back, skill that ignores p.def, root and also self heal. Not to mention all their debuff resistance and extra hp/p.def/m.def. Quite sure they are strong as hell even in mass pvp with a proper bow but, for now, they are quite strong mainly in a 1v1 scenario or small scaled pvp.

    Prophets : if your opponents has a PP and you don't, give up. Debuffs landing with a 100% rate that removes shield, magic barrier, wind walk and dash and also lower p.def/m.def by 25% and speed by 40. Also, counter critical that decreases p.crt dmg received by 30% and momentarly double their crt dmg. Thanks god with next patch they will be nerfed a bit, but still, they will be really strong. Also, since KRs likes to make certain class really useless, PP debuffs prevent tanks to use (or removed) UDs. No wonder PPs are the strongest class in oly together with Soulhounds. Top players there can make even 25 wins out of 25 matches in oly. Xping them up to 76 can be a bit annoying but after that, ggwp.

    Overlord and Warcryer : God. XPing them up to 76 can be a pain in the ***, even worse than PPs but after 76 they becomes insane. Top OLs can even reach 5k p.def while tanks struggle to get over 4k. You can wear heavy armor and drain HPs and MPs (MPs after 76) from mobs making you unkillable by enemies even if you're afk hunting. And i'm not kidding. Even low-tier OLs requires at least 2 players to kill them due to all their toogle and due to that insane drain. Even tho, in 1v1, if they can't get ur CP down they can't drain ur HP...but they crit. A lot.

    Death knights : New class so ofc it's broken. Skill that pulls the target and pratically never fail, 700 range and 1 second delay (and tanks has...10 or 20 secs delay on their chain. And 600 range) and all skills ignoring p.def. Not to mention buffs that increases offensive stats/hp by 30-50 or even 100%. And all their core skills has no delay. They require lots of adenas or fortune to get so OP cause most of their buffs are spellbooks that you need to drop. But even a low DK w/o all skills can be really dangerous due to that ignore def skills and op stats.

    TL;DR :
    Archer and daggers no. Warriors meh Duelist, DK or Tyrant. Mages ignore the dark one. Healers ignore the white one. Summoners again ignore the dark one. Supports throw money and ggwp but OLs that are basically OP. Tanks did i say to ignore the dark oneS? Listed class here are like OP 7/10 but with money they become 10/10.
     
    kaleugamerr, MoVIi, Hihello and 4 others like this.
  4. Delryn

    Delryn User

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    Insightful and really appreciated.
    I would have liked to read this before I lvl my lovely SK, which btw is the crappiest tank since C4.

    I'll be waiting for the next patch to see the updates and reconsider the class then. Till then, I can say that the SWS, my alt, seems way stronger than my SK main, which is better equipped..
     
  5. Bsheep

    Bsheep User

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    @xHaseo Dark elfs are probably the weakest due to summon being mostly a tank, but other 2 are insane. Warlocks got a skill with 10.000 power . Thats not accurate, Spectral Lord the summon of Spectral Master's has a skill with 10k power as well in the max lvl , in fact it has the same power as Arcana lords King of the Cats on the same lvl. plus has a 30% chance the enemy to cancel the target.


    From l2central.info l2 essence:

    Both 85 lvl

    King of the Cats skill:
    Атакует противника. Мощность 10061.

    Spectral Lords skill:
    Атакует противника. Мощность 10061. С определенной вероятностью отменяет цель.

    Spectral Master summons have the biggest critical rate and critical damage in summons (assasin servitor + final servitor)

    However, Elemental Master still is the OP comparing to all three summoners
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2020
  6. xHaseo

    xHaseo Read оnly

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    SK is "dps tank", more or less. All his debuffs got huge land rate but, as always, they lack HPs since they got the lowest CON among tanks. Also, as for the Hell Knight, Touch of Death is useless. And you still don't have Pain of Shillen so...Since you can dualbox, i suggest to make a new account (so you can take free boxes on both) and to level up an SWS, so you're gonna still play both.

    Funny, so summons still have cancel target and daggers lost it? And there's people who still tell me that daggers are fine. Kappa.
    Anyway it's still insane that summons get skills with such powers while normal classes can't.
    Summoners are mages with transfert pain and a nuke that is probably 10% weaker damage wise.
    It still amaze me how NCSoft is unable to balance the game properly even after 16 years of Lineage 2. Making some classes way too strong w/o any con. Cause in the end classes like PP, OL and summoners are OP w/o any negative effect.
     
  7. Delryn

    Delryn User

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    Already did that :D
    SK 78 and SWS 77. Thanks for the tips :)
     
  8. Pantsu123

    Pantsu123 User

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    Thank You, I really appreciate Your help. Going to try BD and/or SE... :) So sad about archers and daggers, loved those classess
     
  9. xHaseo

    xHaseo Read оnly

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    I'd suggest to go for SE since it's usefull in any situation. It can heal and DPS from range and with stigma they are good in 1v1 scenarios as well. BD are getting buffed with upcoming patch but i'm pretty they didn't need it, tbh. A BD or SWS with lots of adena spent are, imho, would be really strong. Take a bow, tyrr rune for atk spd and othell rune for crt rate and you can be kind of effective even from a short distance.

    About daggers and archers : Both can be good if you throw LOTS of euros into the game and managed to get to top stuff. I'll make you few examples from Blue server.

    CAM, Darmi and Chappieba : all of them threw lots of money into the game, they are all 85 and chappi 87. They are hitting me (dagger w/o p2w boost, lv 82) for 1500-4000+ each hit. But ofc, they are 3 levels higher than me (at least), darmi and chappi got baium talisman and they all have epics (chappi for sure, since he scammed them, but that's another story).

    Daggers : Illio and Stabzz. Stabzz is a TH that hits really hard and Illio is GH. Stabzz is 86 while illio is...84? 83? I don't remember. Anyway, they are landing some strong damage since they are over the top with P2W there, i would not say that stabzz is OP due to baium dagger (in fact, i don't know why people qq so much about baium dagger, it's like any other epic weapon, stylish but is as strong top A) but he paid really a lot for his stuff. Illio has good p2w items and also got baium talisman (like stabzz). I remember fighting Illio in plains of lizardmen and he had to spam A LOT of melissas to kill me, then he went full pocket and he can easly 3-4 hit kill me from front with blows landing 2-3k+ dmg each.

    In the other hand, to make you another example, we have players like Qimath or Timber, which are both handless, but they can make dmg cause their classes are basically OP :

    Qimath is a duelist that plays light and full DEX, so this should tell ya how useless he is. He doesn't have much p2w i guess, he has MJ light on, but still his duelist can hit for 3-4k w/o any kind of problem cause basically the class is OP. Timber is a tyrant, he's handless and he only pvp with limits on...but those skills make him hit hard as hell. Knock down when limits are active and you're most likely to die in those 3 seconds. And idk about his gear, it's probably low with fists +5 A and MJ light or heavy.

    To make it even easier to understand : i'm lving up for fun a summoner, elemental summoner, level 69 or 70, i don't remember now. Full D grade, moon armor + moon weapon and NG jewels. While i was xping, an archer came to me and PKd me for my spot, he was lv 73. I went back and took revenge with 3 hits. He came back, we fought, and he never won any fight. lv 69/70 summoner full D vs archer 73 with C weapon and some random C/B parts.

    Basically daggers and archers require a lot of money to get strong while classes such as OL, ES, SE, PP, Soulhound and Duelist are OP since the start and gets even more and more OP if you spend enough money.
     
  10. Zsaka

    Zsaka User

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    I'm a lv75 OL, and I totally agree with you, it was very hard not to give up the class, but now lv 76 is so close. :)
    Questions: What do you think what weapon/playstyle do I need after 3rd class, nuker or fighter? What is better for pvp and for pve? What's the difference between OL and WC, only wc is viable as a fighter?
     
  11. xHaseo

    xHaseo Read оnly

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    2H Blunt, nuker style. You will level up Weapon Mastery that will now drain MPs as well. For gear, go heavy. You'd still have a huge casting and you'd have more p.def than a tank with all toogles.
    OL and WC are pretty much the same, few differences are buffs they gain and 1 or 2 debuffs. If i'm not wrong tho, OL got few more toogles and the OP one that boost a lot the p.def.

    But now that you make me think about it there's a guy in red server that play WC and play mostly melee with freezing flame debuff..mhhh..well you're OL, so nuker it is.
     
  12. iVoid

    iVoid Read оnly

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    Depends on the amount you are able to invest tbh.

    There are OLs/WCs farming in orc barracs with pole and fighter setup and tbh is quite worth it .
     
  13. Hihello

    Hihello User

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    I'm confused between SUM and SE, can you tell me which one should i play? I'm not a p2w player, can donate 10-20eu/month.
    Thanks
     
  14. xHaseo

    xHaseo Read оnly

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    Go summoner. They require the less gear since they are OP by default. 20 euro per month is not much, if you could even get up to 100, eventually, would make things quite easier. But still, if you fight summoner vs SE, with same gear, the summoner is gonna stomp the SE. Even tho the SE has some good debuff such as stigma, i don't think that cover the broken dmg coming from a pet with full class buff after lv 80+.
     
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  15. Pantsu321

    Pantsu321 User

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    Hello again,

    Still have problems to decide which class to play, few classess are interesting for me ;p main problem is to decide in which one invest adena for. I leveled SE, BD and SLH to 76, on thier way is also EE and pony. Tought to put everything in SE, but just noticed price of Divine beam for example...

    So, cant find any guide about gear progress etc, what is best class for pve atm etc, etc. Have atm 200m adena and c grade set packs on all of them. If i choose to play robe as main char, makes any sense to buy avadon or just farm my as for maj robe set? Any1 can help me with that?
     
  16. iKoobu

    iKoobu Read оnly

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    Just one thing.

    Instead of let people tell you what u should play, why you dont play the class that u more enjoy? If you are donating 20e month, u will never be on top, so better imo invest those 20e on the class that you more enjoy.

    On topic: i would get the pony, broken and cheaper.
     
    Pantsu321 likes this.
  17. Pantsu321

    Pantsu321 User

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    Thank You for the answer! The thing is as usual when i start playing (over and over again) i cant really decide which char to play at begining. Sometimes it's because of class balance on certain server, sometimes it's just i dont feel like to play this, or that this time. As i said before, those classess i mentioned above makes me satisfied, but i have to focus on just one toon to invest adena for. I wasted couple of bucks already ;P I know its silly, i never understand it either why someone ask for best class for pve, or pvp, or whatever. I just look for class which would be viable all arround, for pve, pvp, mass pvp etc. Dont aim to be on top, cant invest that much time, and dont want to put that much money. Just want to be on middle of that :p I think i'll do what You suggested and play pony. Could You tell me please just in few words about gear progression?
     
  18. iKoobu

    iKoobu Read оnly

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    I can't tell you anything about pony. Never played summoner, but based on what i saw in yt. Full mage setup+pony restoring mp.(but better ask some1 who really know this class) I just figth them and god this class needs a nerf.
     
  19. xHaseo

    xHaseo Read оnly

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    Ponies are just broken. For some reason, anyway, mages here can crit from 2x to 3x w/o any reason so they are totally broken.

    Pony is easy to gear : XP with robe & 2h magic blunt. Eventually, in pvp end-game, you might think to buy the 'special armors' (ice crystal, lightning and fire)...you can pick both light or robe, there's just few differences which are mainly the bonuses from armor. I'd go light tho. For XP you can mix armors A grade to get urself +WIT/m.atk. 2H magic blunt cause you'd get higher m.atk, would be fine.

    Dyes, you can even stay w/o 'till late 76, eventually just get a +4 wit -5 men to XP a lil faster. No more cause you'll kill ur own mana regen. When event will allow you, go +12 WIT -6 MEN and ggwp.
     
  20. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow User

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    i have now a es as 78 but i hate it.
    Well seems like i still hate ponys :D, at the start i was going for a ps and switched....i should have stayed on ps sadly.