How i learnt to stop worrying and i started to love instances...

exactly i wont go to drink with friends better camp baium for 12h and later will pwn those nubs with my supa dupa baium ring it was only place where they could feel more superior than others.

 

i will answer to everyone,so plz dont mind the wot that will come after

oh,and how many wow players l2 got?
how many former l2 players l2 lost?

needless to say that the recent fails from ncsoft had the company falling apart and gettin overtaken from nexon.
so yea,indeed a great success from ncsoft this 'lets take wow players wiew'.

yea,this argument is correct,but it cant be working as excuse cause it ended up failing.
so maybe their demands werent worthing the changes,i mean,maybe keeping the game the way it was couldve saved the former l2 community,without push the massive drainout of players afterwards.
in the long run been lost the players the plan aimed to keep,while adjusting the game to their new lifestyle (can be reasonable to consider that after a few the growth of the game is over and it will,at best,fidelize its own old players,but not gain others more?).
at a certain point,with the l2 community gettin older in most of his members,so they went doing different things irl,gettin more busy and so on,its completely understandable,but it goes into another matter,which is the human lifespan,dont want to think koreans werent informed about the fact that teenagers past 20 find works,families etc and cant manage to nolife a game anymore.
most my friends and people ive played lineage 2 with quitted for the same reasons,while it started to become too much casual-friendly oriented and ended up destroying its own working environment,consider that l2 was based to clans/alliances perspectives,to be a competitive mmo where to prevail you had the need to work and fight with other large groups of players...you see yourself now,l2 became way to restricted in terms of numbers-needs,mostly is enough to have a good geared-organised constant party and thus clans-alliances becomes useless.
here the game died on his nature.

@silme
yea i see it,from my own wiew i hated harnak and orbis style,find it quite boring and deconcentrating,with the dumb concept of the time and points...about pvp in new spots,honestly,is not the same fun,thus i said gank was dead,yea i could still gank parties exping in soa by just training them but it wasnt the same fun,it became overall harder to kill a target (such as healers for ex,before healers were key targets to be protected or neutralized somehow) and mobs became generally stronger to ruin most the pvps.
its different,honestly i couldnt like the changes made.

@etherial
all good observations.
expecialy the 'too fast' question.
in around 3 months here on core i was 95,w seraph set,300 weapon etc...,starting from level 1,didnt felt as hard at all,didnt felt the 'rewarding' in it at all.
the race itself was brought from the 'brand new server' imho,but yea whoever knew 'how to' or simply dedicated a little just got bored and quitted faster,thus the new system of the game is not working in keeping the players in the long term.
still have good memories about how old sieges and epics were,baiums fights,antharas fights,having a whole ally fighting on 3/4 castles at the same time,moving around to ambush enemies or break their cast,protect your own casters,with leaders that were trusted and able to make good tactics...now,as said,game got dumbed down to look faster and easier,but lost all is worthy content,in my opinion.

ps.
thx everyone,nice discussion so far.

nah,im not crying,im not even playing anymore.
im just exposing some thoughts i had and wanted to share them.

you see,noone forbids you to 'go out and drink with friends instead than camp baium for tot hours',not even before.
but so...why u want that baium? :>
and no,instances drops randomly,99% luck....is the most unfair/anti-meritocratic thing that ever existed,and it get pushed as new fairness symbol.
is like instead than give the epic to a good active player of a strong party you get it,randomly...on the boxed buffer twink.o_o

olympiads are another matter,oly were gear based competition but were,overall...clan vs clan competition.
sometimes,some strong and organised groups were able to break up and take their own heroes on their own,but wasnt the norma.
you needed brain,you needed dedication...and yea,you needed gear,you needed also lot of money to invest in just buy talismans and all the rest.
strongest olympiad players,before god (id say before freya but there was no limit match and was even harder,then ppl really nolifing olympiad 6 hours a day),were so mostly cause they had a clan-alliance that fully supported their effort and increased the outcome of their work...so yea,you see,alone,for how good geared and skilled someone is,in the original l2,means nothing.

 

l2 off serves in my opinion, have been destroying the game in all it's history. now that is f2p became god, and there are some private servers (won't mention names), which have been open for 4-5 years (without wipe) and as we speak their online is 11240., just because they are non-god chronicles.
having a clan with 120+ members since 2004, now resulted in groups scattered among servers just because they do not like god.
only solution to keep a clan nowadays is to make activities for the fun of "clan" activity, otherwise sooner or later some will quit.

 

no it doesn't. the guy that pks gets penalty (no xp till he clears it, with more pk chance to drop items,...) while the guy that was pked just logs a box healer and resses himself. no xp lost or anything. the big problem i see is in the ability to port pretty much anywhere on the map in a matter of seconds.

 

after i read the first line of the first wall of text i just felt obligated to post this picture...

 

thats not a problem of pk system but 100% healer res which i also agree it should be 90%, 97% on max level.
getting no xp while pk is just something they did since ncsoft killed sin eater

 

zairakh, the point is that we are already too old. you look at all the changes with the eyes of an old man who always remember good times of the youth and dont want to see any changes. i suffer this feelings also but still trying to keep my mind open for the changes. like a gank - it should have challenge from my point of view - it still has it. as for stronger mobs - you probably dont remember pvp with barifs and kariks in c3 and himeras at hellbound. and kariks again in freya.

 

^this

zairakh, you still would have time to camp frinteza / baium / antharas / valakas / aq + feed olympiad anytime during a week now? cause i understand 5 years ago, when we were young and some no lifers were able for example to enter antharas and run with him all night and all day just to let clan prepare propper cc and start fighting. i ask directly: would you do it again? or just wishing someone can do it instead of you?

btw i was playing on end game on lancer in h5 update and sometimes i remember:



monday: camping and fighting for baium all the day

tuesday: trying to do antharas but after 5-6 hours of killing failed cause too many ppl started slacking and going afk, so cl said: "tomorrow again"

wednesday: 1 more time, but this time enemies were inside since early hours so we had to w8 like 22:00 until enemies regrouped and trying reenter. around 04:00 am this time we did him (ofc half party who had to wake up to work ./ school went sleep many hours ago

thursday: this time valakas (someone was running with him for 2 days cause antharas delayed so qq for this person). like 5-6 hours killing this *****, after many anakims etc. ofc if you got disconect in valakas you cant reenter so gg and at 20% valakas hp we had to leave and enter again in the middle of night

firday: again camping baium (like 7 hours camping and 1,5 hour pvp not so good deal at all dont think so?)

saturday: some oly time and tw

sunday: sieges


-------------

simply 0 time to do anything for your own cp (get farm some items, make freya / frinteza) no time to find some 9 vs 9. and almost every week **** like this to get what? at the end of month get 1 antharas and 1 baium for my cp. so great? was it worth it? was it so fun zairakh to waste sooooooooooo maaaaaaaaaaaaaaanyyyyyyyyyy hours of pointles camping (or even running with boss for 2 days lolz!)?

answer me, cause i think you remember only good things and forgetting how boring and frustrating it was. missing this time? or missing 10000000000 hours killing moobs on varka / ketra? (mostly on bots btw i guess the same for you since we both were playing on ncsh1t server)

think zairakh twice and answer my post

 

@silme
yea,chimeras at start were quite hard tho,but nothing as dumb as (for example) gog in this.
but maybe starting from 0 this chronicle betrays a bit my thoughts,not sure if gog would've been that hard to a proper jeweled toon.
kariks were easy,unless aoeing the best loa room but loa revamp was pretty much mage friendly....kariks room was farmed by mages mostly.

@alarion
just you i was waiting!!
hi m8.

i wish.
but is not about us,i know we're gettin 'older' (suxx to think this way tho),there for sure would be another generation of players,with theorically more experienced people that just guides them to the way to do things.
but still you wont log and feel the nothingness or the sandbox effect until sieges-tw.
this game is supposed to be an mmo,where the first m means massive.
lineage 2 actualy has cutted off any relation with it,in order to have it easier for this new generation of players that actually lost the way to build worthy clans-alliances cause all the people that could guide them in it quitted already.
yea life span of players means alot in the conception but in a clan where the constant parties where the basic structure not the end of the pyramid it would've been worth,now,since few chronicles,this instancing thing raised too much selfish close minded cp leaders to to be unable to understand that take some jewels (away from the enemy,firstly) is a gain even if they does not get it right away.

this belongs to a new concept of this game,having to ask the enemies to come pvp is born from the lack of stable fights in first place,thus you know how much i hated arranged pvps,yea they could happen from time to time but usualy it was the outcome of a gank with flawless end where who lost tried to look better fighting without mobs train on,but wasnt (shouldnt) be the norm.
since most pvps happened for spots you could just come back and wipe the enemies off,and the cycle keeps going,as the enemies comes back themself.
9v9,for how it can be nice,were meaningless ,making deals like 'dont use this,dont use that' and so on,dont like that approach,honestly.

indeed not,but i as i remember,except for anthy dont remember that long camping,for baium usualy someone logged a box to spy check,or the party that was called to get it went there first,ready to call the others in case of spawn or enemies coming.
baiums fights were highly rewarding for the side that firstly came on toi and could take defensive positions,i mean,except ooc who would manage to loose with such advantage?

*add list of people to thank for this!!*

before god you had much more ways and places to find pvp,now the fights last longer but for the most they are meaningless,most people now tend to avoid the pvp itself (add also engine-fps issues w new animations) cause they feel is not rewarding at all,theres nothing to gain through it.

 

i cant understand what is the problem? game became more friendly - we dont have to sit for hours to achieve something, its a win-win situation.

 

so maybe gms give us gm shop and rates 10x, every1 will runing with same items and lvls ?? why waste time for achieve somethink ??

god is good chronicle for noob parties

in olders chronicles ppl pvp bcos thay have to ,
u want epiks -go pvp
u want sa - go pvp for anakim
u want s grade- go pvp for varka rb
u want nobles-go pvp for barakiel
etc

wait now we have to fight for ?? u make everythink in instances

 

not really and at some point u get bored of the whole 7 people 'mog' (not massive anymore) concept and end up quitting as soon the group stop working properly.
i repeat,l2 without clans-alliances environment is weakly structured.
if they would've made istina/octavis in a different way maybe...
fortuna also was really a point break to the whole balance aspect,breaking up the economy really fast.

and this,also:

its called meritocracy.

this is what im saying since thread starting.

about anakims,if im correct,you firstly need to make dusk win 7 signs competition then go farm the sealbook which had a very low rate,but still we managed to obtain 4 sealbooks within our alliance.

ps.
no wall of text now!! :d

 

for zairakh and others if u so desperately want to farm 2 months for weapon or camp 12h valakas and kill it for 6h there is plenty of good h5 freya "oldschool" servers and play there instead of whining here.

 

i miss even such thing like "k guys, let's go kill anthy, will spawn soon" after 5 hours... "where da faq is enemy?" someone in vt " wait, isn't it tommorow"? and then, let the rage begin. :d miss those times so much, would be great to play again such l2, that all of us new for many years. ;]

 

nah,no time,no will,not in freya at least,for sure.
i did all already,im just saying for the sake of it,for matching community opinions.

anyway im not whining,im just pointing out the current status of the game,except alarion and ancientevil noone brought substainable argumentation in defence of those changes.

 

god has its + and -.

confess u were about to compare it to wow!

did wow lose players to l2, actually it did, i am 1 of them. wow gets boring the moment u say **** this grinding.
while in wow u dont have farming for lvls, u do farm for gear (pve and pvp wise). yeah u farm in pvp, its fun at start but gets boring cuz its simply same **** over and over.

is this god instance **** bad? no its not! is getting epics from instances bad ?
of course its not, unless ur butthurt that now every 1 can get epics. which is wrong since octavis ring + istina neclase isnt something every random has, unless hes lucky. not like randoms couldnt have epics before?
they had them sooner or later eighter buying with adena/ebaying/server flooded with them cuz of age.
there is still baium and aq which u can camp, and they aint crappy. well aq kinda is, since u replace it with octavis ring.
but suprisingly no1 goes pvp for baium. the reason is in people not the game itself. i used to camp baium in old days, but nowdays i would just tell u to gtfo. maybe for 2 hours, but then i would just logout and its like that with most people. also ur forgeting about earth worm which simply is even more sweet then baium nowdays.

and since people like to throw how wow is better, mentioning to wow player how l2 was before god and telling him how u camped baium for 7 hours, he would just give u a dumb look and think omg what a ******ed game. since in wow 2 players lets say enemys with same chars, same gear, same skill can both get the op ring. was never like this in l2.

what they did wrong is that pvp in l2 is not rewarding, besides tw/sieges/fort and pvp ch. in wow u have totaly separeted pve/pvp gear and pvp gear can only be obtained by pvp. not to mention that a player in pve gear cant beat an equal player in pvp gear.
so your reward is better pvp gear, besides the ranking of course.

the pk system has only 2 problems, its the no xp loss and removed sin quest. it works as intended in high lvl since u can dekarma fast.

if they fixed the pk system, so that u lose some xp only if u get pked and sin quest.
and made the pvp rewarding like in wow, this game would be just fine.

camping and grinding ur *** of for lvls/gear/epics was never fun except for those brief (comparing to time invested into char) moments of pvp.

about people quiting game and clans at smallest sign of cp problems, its problem in this same people and clans, since not so heavy based cp clans dont have this problems.
u forget in core the game didnt change so much that cp would actually be the necesary evil. its the players that changed the game. because saying that in c2-c4 making a cp was useless is pure ********.
the fault isnt completly in game itself, but also in l2 community developing to the point where we are now.

 

i understand both points of views but i really think that we miss something, one point is that instances system let the ppl who play less than nolifers advance, i am a little disappointed in that at end all ppl take gear with adena or something, trade is an important think in l2 and others mmos, and i see so many ppl that play so much time and have more advantage than you can imagine in pvp, i laugh when someone said that that you can fight in oly now without been a nolifer, lvl make so difference now and gear is the same.

i dont care about that i care about some of this ppl that was top lvl play all the time as a random!!! where is the clan where is the community in an online game i miss that. people have reason that camp some epics 8h or more and 6 to kill him is a great **** but unless that make ppl organize and work together i dont want camp this epics too but i really want the mind of clan that you find in the past.

so much ppl say that the players grow up and dont have the same time, when i was more young i don’t have time and i see the clan fight and always hope participate, now i have more time and can’t do it :s

i found a cp that i can call a real cp (btw not full xd) i and meet so much good ppl in my clan or in my enemys or someone that have my clan mate and now is my enemy and still have a good relation. i expected that i dont start with a cp in that server and i must be slow because that compare to formed cps (including if he play the same time than me) but really sometimes i think that i lose the time of xp finding a cp when you exp more fast as a random, but ¿for what? to get bored and quitted? to say i'm more lvl i have more gear i can kill you all and win you in oly but i dont wana pk. just lol...

i really like l2 because i see it as team game you need a good group you need organization you need a good clan, i dont try to be the best it was bored to me y play to make a great team.

pd: by min(forum dont accept 3 letters name >.>)

 

well both side are good even if they are different. old times was good when ppl have time. but i prefer this new chronicle i like this also with tauti and glory days this game will be much more pvp oriented. we are playing god 1.0 that is not complete. it's something like a beta still. a lot of ppl quitted because of boring dailies so imagine if they should grind a lot for 1 level or gear. the only problem what i see nowadays there are a lot brainless ppl even on high levels. it's caused because of this game went more easier. so it's a pro and kontra too.

 

the problem with l2 is that its limited by its own game engine. everybody loves mass pvp until fps drops to 1-2 and suddenly you are dead. the korean developers had some nice ideas for a long time now which they hope to implement in the future. these things include:
-inter-server wars
-inter-server raids (shilen raid for 1k+ players)
-inter-server olympiad
regarding pk system, it will change in glory days(it will somewhat revert back to the old pk system):
http://mmorpg-tactics.com/news/lineage-2glory-days-glory-days-pk-system
not to mention that in tauti you can pk a member of a clan with dark castle without getting karma.
there is a very large amount of content that korean devs have in mind. there are 5 more seeds to be introduced in gracia, 4 more dragons (soon lindvior-announced for this year and farfurion), but depending on how korean players receive these things, the devs will or will not continue them.
for example tauti raid was not well received in korea, but i'm sure it will be farmed on ru,na,eu servers because of the blunts+ring which will probably give a decent pvp advantage. that is the radical difference : koreans pve to pve, westerners pve to pvp but both get what koreans want sadly.

 

yea,well the road is that,for me wow is completely ****,wont even bother explaining my reasons,tho.

you said it,epics my earned in my opinion,luck shouldnt be a factor in who gets what....
to have a player or a party rewarded with an epic (antharas and valakas mainly,baium as well) was rewarding for the whole clan-alliance,your side would've become stronger out of teamplay and dedication,not luck.
is like to roll a dice for who gets the castles instead than fight for them,you would consider it? :d

and this is why i would keep away from this target of players,rather have less capable players than the game flooded with beggers and idiots everywhere,being honest.
as im concerned in wow there is not even the concept of open world pvp...indeed cant be a comparison cuz we're talking of two different things,with different methods and different goals.
in l2 the main goal,besides your own progress,along with party and clan,was to disrupt your enemy progress,making them unable to,force the opposing side(s) to come out and fight to gain something or die without gain anything day over day.

and its instanced too,is clearly the road publishers-devs took to dont have a bunch of unhappy kids crying 'omg i cant win cuz my enemy is nolifer' thus people now whines cause economy is breaking over...
a clan that wants to rule should put some effort in organising and motivating players to do so,but as said,most people now is focused only on their own backyard,exp,exp,exp,gain gear through meaningless instances.....to me is pointless.

@sheslat

broken consequence of broken mechanics,as said.
the whole kos list thing on untaged chars had a point back then,would be nice to see a game that will allow this part officially in the future.
anw...until you have a clan-guild able to stick and progress together you will be most likely always ahead most of the randoms,unless those can backup with more time to spend...

i see more and people recognize it,that may be the new target,imho,instead to break our minds into discussing if instancing everything is good or bad,my opinion is know,but once again,l2 was thought for a clan-alliance based playerbase,not for soloers,thats why they should be let behind,want play solo/small group/clans? well,your choice,but you wont see endgame this way without put your head into server matters,had a point,like the camping thing.....

yea no sineater suxx :d